Week 6 Blog
For this week's posting, I want you to imagine that you are privileged to have a conversation with either Perl or Rose, the two authors we are reading for this week's work. What questions might you ask them and how would you interact with them? What aspects of their research lines up most closely to your own experiences? For example, you might note that your experiences line up closely with one of the subjects that Perl studied. You might also look at particular aspects of the arguments put forth in one of these texts to see how these claims have held up after thirty years has passed. The important thing to consider is this: your posting should demonstrate critical engagement with at least one of the texts. It is not sufficient to simply rehash the arguments presented, but you should focus on analyzing specific parts of an argument or specific methods of the study to reveal something interesting. Are there interdisciplinary ways of seeing some of the issues Rose and Perl discuss in their readings?
This posting is due before 11:59pm on Monday, 2/11/2013.
If you should have any questions, please send me an email at:
joseph.longhany@ucf.edu
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Brooke Drebenstedt ENC1101 0M03
ReplyDeleteI appreciate Mike Rose's approach to the issue of writer's block in college students. I, too feel that writing should be a fluid activity and not so much a concious effort. The rules that student examined in the article used caused to much interence in thir writing, for example "always grab your audience": this just is not always possible or desirable in writing. There are certain subjects that are better to be brought about slowly rather than hooking your reader from the first paragraph. I also like the approach on planning for writing, as he phrased it "a plan that is not a plan." When writing, I have always found the most success when I take the questions or subject at hand and jot down everything I could possibly want to include pertaining to it; more often comes to me while writing. Having the stimulation as you write to continue through the points you noted in the prework keeps the words flowing and relevant. A rule that I agree is positive to keep in mind when writing is "if it won't fit my work, I'll change it" this idea of an open canvas when writing where nothing is wrong and should not be scrutinized while in process seems to me the key way to avoid writer's block. Because of this fluidity and open air that allows for success in writing, I have always found final drafts to be much more difficult to construct than rough drafts. The best writing is dne when not thinking critically: "write drunk, edit sober."
Sara Heitzenroeder
ReplyDeleteENC 1101- 0M04
It was interesting to read “The Composing Processes of Unskilled Writers” by Sondra Perl. Perl had a combined focus on a standardized method of recording, observing, and reporting on writers’ behaviors while writing. I specifically appreciated reading about her one case study, Tony. He was 20 years old, an ex-Marine, married with children, and a willing to participate in Perl’s study. It was observed that as soon as Tony began writing, he indicated a concern for correct form that ended up inhibiting the development of his ideas. He couldn’t even get through two sentences without editing. I feel like most writers might wait a bit longer to go through and edit a paper, particularly after writing down all their ideas, but I did think it was great that he was editing. He saw flaws, and felt the need to fix it, even if there were still many errors at the end. The most similar part I found to be Tony’s strategy. After given a topic, he focused in and narrowed it down to something he could understand and relate to his own experiences. I have had similar experiences with writing and feel like that is something most writers would do. You would interpret the topic in a way that you can understand, by rephrasing it in some way to be able to better develop your ideas. This could be a way with connecting you with the essay or story you are writing and make it better than it would be if there was no connection. Another part of Perl’s study of Tony that caught my attention was how there was a miscue analysis. The behaviors that were composed aloud and the miscue analysis resulting from it provided one of the first demonstrable ways of understanding how such obviously incomplete texts can be considered “finished” by the student themselves. In Tony’s case, he consistently voiced a complete sentence, but was not able to put it on paper. He was only able to transcribe a partial sentence. What would be the reason for that? I can’t relate to this part of the study like I can most of the rest in some way. For the most part, it seems like the unskilled writers in this study are able to begin the writing process, but aren’t able to complete it properly or like they are expected too. I think most “basic” skills writers, or “beginners”, would still, 30 years later in the present time, have the same sort of developmental composing difficulties. They are able to understand, but not able to complete their ideas in a well-organized way on paper. Overall, this study proved that more focus needs to be placed on these individual needs of the students so they don’t remain “unskilled” forever.
Dacotah Roeber ENC 1101-OM06
ReplyDeleteI was interested in how Rose stated that the term "writers block" was used loosely and talks about how serious writers block can be. He states that his research of the students has many different reasons why they are turning in less the decent papers. Whether it was due to trying to strengthen a paper with non-important facts, doing the paper so that it grabs the readers attention, or focusing on the initial paragraph. All of these things I can relate to almost all of his findings from his students. As a student in middle and high school, English class was a required class in order to pass to the next grade, so we would do whatever it took to get good grades. Although getting good grades were very important, in a way I was setting myself up to fail for the future classes I would have. As Rose stated about Ruth worrying too much about grammatical errors, I feel that in school we were always taught to care about even the smallest grammatical error. With only caring about how I wrote sentences or spelled words correctly I let the spark of my writings go, only doing enough to get the A and not having an originality. Another good point Rose pointed out, was about Sylvia's paper. She would sit for hours and hours trying to get the paper started with her opening paragraph. I can say that I have done that with many of my papers in school as well. The topics chosen for school essays are not always the best to say the least, and being taught to always start off with the first paragraph to set the foundation of your paper was not always the best choice to writing papers. I can remember struggling with papers in school even though I knew what I was going to say in the body paragraphs, I just could not get that first one to make sense so that the teacher would approve of it, which would block the flow of my writing abilities. Rose stated many factors of "writers block" some many of us have faced and battled against. As Rose continued to research his findings he suggest that people who are blocked are not wrong, but rather instructed through text or teaching rules of thumb, that could be used as near-algorithmic urgencies.
Brandon Lee
ReplyDeleteENC 1101-0M04
I engaged more first hand experience while reading Rose's article about "Writer's Block". I too have trouble writing certain papers and following all the rules I have been taught over the years. I agree with the idea of Rose when he states that not all rules are achievable or necessary. Some occurrences challenge students to follow specific guidelines as if the prompt is an algorithm, when in reality heuristics come into play. In particular, I connect very well with a blockers standpoint on starting an essay and grabbing the audience. Throughout elementary and middle school, my teachers always emphasized on getting the readers attention. I always felt indifferent to this rule as well as executing the task. If I'm not actually talking to someone or an audience then it doesn't seem right in my opinion engaging with the reader without them physically there. This differs from the test subjects with Rose's article, but relates to the same problem. The difficulty I had with this either prolonged the required time to finish papers or weakened the beginning. My only knowledge to actually engage a reader showed weak writing signs by my teachers, thus stopping my writings progress at the first stage. With the privilege to have a conversation with Rose, I would discuss the introductory portion of papers. I would allow Rose to guide my thoughts on rules that may not be necessary. The simple guidance by Rose, in my opinion, will increase my ability to engage and seek further improvement.
Lauren Helinger
ReplyDeleteENC1101-0M06
While I found many things in Perl's writing that I could relate to, I feel Rose's writing appealed to me more. I enjoy how he focused on the “thinking problems” involved with writing. One of the first points he makes is based off of ten students at UCLA, which five of whom he found had writers block. He said that this block could often come from an emotional realm. Anxiety and insecurity are both things he mentioned which I can relate to. Starting off an essay I really want it to be attention grabbing and I want people to want to read it. I always redo my first couple of sentences and try to fit them to be something that others may be impressed by, even if I don't necessarily like the way it fits. If I would stick to what I think sounds best to me, my writings may be better and show more personality. He mentioned a girl named Ruth who was included in the “blockers”, she explained how she had always learned that the “beginning is everything” which led her to use non-useful sentences and she was led to writer's block. I also agree with the part where he mentioned that students were taught from elementary all the way to high school to write essays with three main points and five paragraphs, which really constricts a writer's ability to write what they want. This is something that still stands true today over thirty years later.
I also found a few things in Perl's article that pertained to me. I realized as I was reading Tony's case study that I have a lot of the same tendencies when I write that he had. Like Tony, after I write a sentence or two I like to go back and read the section as a whole to make sure it all fits together. I also find that if a topic is something that I can't relate to, I tend to rant and repeat the same things just in different words to get more length. It was interesting seeing the things I do and how they're included in the code. I really think the process as a whole is really neat and if I had the opportunity to ask her a few questions I would definitely ask what it was that made her decide to do this extensive research. It takes something to come up with the idea but it takes so much time, effort, and passion to actually follow through with the full research, so I'm sure her whole story behind it is very interesting.
Last week, I walked into the Writing Center to get one of my papers checked before I turned it in. Little did I know, the esteemed Sondra Perl was on campus that day helping the Writing Staff. I imagined it would helpful to talk to her and see how she could possibly enhance my paper about the writing process for college students. So, I sat down in front of her table and introduced myself…
ReplyDeleteJS: Hi, my name is Jessica. It’s so great to meet you! I was hoping you could help me with this paper.
SP: Sure, that’s why I’m here!
JS: Great! So, this paper is about the process of writing as college students, for my English class. I started with the process of coming up with the topic, how to plan for the paper, and then actually writing it.
SP: Well, this is my expertise! You have come to the right place. Let me read the paper and then we’ll talk about it.
SP: Okay, so you made a lot of great points here. I really like the beginning when you talk about the struggles of many students to compose an idea for the paper they are writing.
JS: Yeah, I feel that even I have that problem a lot of times. It seems that many writers have a problem coming up with a topic and ideas to expand on.
SP: Well, in my study, I saw that a lot. So, I definitely know what you mean. It seems that a lot of students have the same problems with composing a paper, and I think it has a lot to do with who taught you how to write, because most students don’t really change their writing habits. They find a comfortable writing stance, whether or not it’s correct, and stick to it because it’s what they know.
JS: Right, I definitely understand that.
SP: Also, I like the point you made about students who aren’t very experienced with writing, especially College Freshman. It’s always very clear that students who don’t have a lot of practice writing detailed pieces have a hard time writing their first year of school, which is something that I wrote about thirty years ago. It’s interesting to see that a young student recognizes that today.
JS: I definitely think that a lot of students are like this, because most of us are used to the arbitrary writing skills from the FCAT, our states’ standardized test, as well as other standardized writing that we’ve had to do. This writing is very basic and to the point, which makes it difficult for college students, including myself, to expand and deepen our arguments in a paper.
SP: That’s very interesting. Before our time is up, I wanted to talk about the last point you made about the writer writing selfishly, what do you mean by that?
JS: I think that writers often times ignore the audience that they are writing to, which makes them selfish. I feel that it’s important to understand whom you’re writing to, or who will be your potential audience in order to strengthen your paper. If you’re writing to a certain group, you want to write about something they’ll be able to understand better.
SP: Great point! That’s very similar to my idea of egocentricity in my paper, “The Composing Processes of Unskilled College Writers.” Well, I really enjoyed reading your paper and talking to, Jessica. I hope this helped!
JS: Absolutely, it was a pleasure meeting you. Thanks so much for your help.
Taylor Brown
ReplyDeleteEnc 1101-OM04
While reading Mike Rose’s “Rigid Rules, Inflexible Plans, and the stifling of Language: A Cognitivist Analysis of Writer’s Block”, I was quite intrigued in the argument that was presented. I can relate very closely to this piece of work, and I was interesting to learn more about where my writer’s block was stemmed from. I feel that I am constantly turning in papers that feel rushed and in turn I am not turning in my best work. This makes me really doubt my ability as a writer; I view myself as a terrible writer, even if that may not be the case. Rose describes emotions as being a cause for writer’s block, which I know is a huge problem for me. When I begin to write a paper, I cannot begin to explain the amount of anxiety that I have. I relate the most to one of the test subjects, “Ruth”, She tends to get stuck on the introduction and continuously writes and erases sentences; She never viewed the sentence as “good enough” for the paper. Ruth was taught in high school that the introduction’s most important element is to capture the audience’s attention. This is an example where a heuristic becomes a creativity blocker. I tend to experience a really similar situation when I write. I focus and spend too much time on the introduction because I was taught that this is the most important paragraph in the piece and then due to lack of time I need to rush through the remaining body paragraphs. Rose states that the difference in the five test subjects that experienced writers block and those five who did not was the rules in which each used. For those who had writers block they focused more on the planning strategies, which inhibited creativity and blocked the writing process. Also, Rose describes the concepts of plans, which brought an argument to light that I have never noticed before. Writing is viewed as a problem-solving process, this paper just chooses to acknowledge when the process dead-ends in writers block. Human nature is one that relies on heuristics, which is a guideline of varying intensity. However, with my experiences with writing I believe we are critiqued on a more algorithmic level. As writers, though there is room for creative variety, we are criticized either to be right or wrong; there is no in-between. I also really appreciate when Rose differentiates a set and a plan. This explained my “usual” ways of reacting to a variety of situations. I never really understood why I had a go to set of problem solving techniques until reading this paper. Though rose recognizes the causes of writers block, I would ask Rose, “How would you assist those writers experiencing writers block?”
I was interested in Mike Rose writing about writer’s block. It is something every college student goes through at least once. My own experience lines up mostly with Ruth and having to grab the audience attention. I think the most difficult part of any writing that I do is just the introduction. After the introduction, everything else just usually flows. It was a big rule that was taught to me in every English class. I like that he states that not all rules are achievable, but then why make a big deal of the rules if they are not achievable.
ReplyDeleteIf I had a conversation with Mike Rose, I would bring up the topic about procrastination in writing. if you give me a week to write an essay, I usually have writers block until the last couple of hours that it is due. In high school I rarely had writers block because I always had only an hour to do an essay in class. I rarely had to do essays at home, but even with the take home essays I would do them last minute with ease. If I tried to do the essay earlier than that, I would have writers block. It seems like when I am the most stressed about a certain assignment is when I can do the assignment the quickest, but in Mikes writing he says during the solution period is when we eliminate stress, but I need that stress to take away my writer’s block. It seems like I am opposite.
Kevin T. Bhim
ReplyDeleteENC 1101-0m04
If I was privileged to speak with Mike Rose I would ask him questions mostly about the rules and plans and if they were used in the right way would these students be able to write papers significantly better? And then those blockers and non-blockers with how those students write their papers based on their past experiences and how they write just to “Try to keep the audience in mind”. How does this also affect students and they things they write in their own lives? I would also Interact with him in a way that I would want to find more answers about the topics he talked about. The part of the reading I can most relate to is “The Blockers” because everyone has their own way of planning to write and some are quick to make plans and be ready to make their drafts and others have trouble getting past the first few stages and mess the whole thing up somehow.
The person in this section I can relate to is Mike because when I have to make an essay I would usually wait till when the assignment is due and just have to plan on what I want to go by. If that plan that I want to go by changes then I will have some trouble changing that plan because seeing things from the planning stage helps you with knowing that your plan is done in a way that you are ready to do that paper knowing that you planned it out. Also in Laurel's stance of her writing I see myself sometimes having papers that are not always on topic because little information on a piece of paper that can be on topic is not always enough for some people. So I go off topic on writings that I think is on topic (not for others) and explain about different things that makes sense to me and to the topic I’m writing about but it's not always that way. That makes the writing look bad in a few ways because of how I would go off topic on a paper just to make it look longer and more professional in which it is not. Overall, after reading this, I'm learning that papers that I make should have the planning and rules in them but not strictly on one either because if I base everything on just one and not go outside of my comfort zone then I will just be writing to make the paper longer and not make the topic I am writing about clear.
This post really interested me because I feel as if a lot of young writers struggle with the same types of problems when writing papers. If I were able to meet with Perl, I would ask her how she thinks “already proficient writers” methods of writing a paper, would compare to how these students being studied methods of writing a paper. (191) I would also like to know why she thinks the stronger writers developed better skills than the rest. What made their upbringing or education so different in that they can write papers better than another student? I would also like to ask Perl, why she thought Tony focused so much on editing his paper before he had even written it? Do a lot of students struggle with the content of the paper? Is that why they choose to focus so closely on the grammar? Or perhaps, do they think that the grammar is more important than the actual content of the paper? I would also like to ask Rose why he thinks writer’s block only happens to some people in extreme cases and not others?
ReplyDeleteBoth pieces really interested me and I could easily relate to both. In Roses’ piece, it really caught my attention when he explained that writers block is a rare problem not just something people “claim to have” such as ADHD. (237) I was also under the impression a writer block was a common problem most writers had. I could easily relate to Ruth’s example the best in that she was taught a good essay had to grab the reader’s attention. From a young age, students are taught that essay’s should draw in the reader and make them want to read the paper. Growing up, I myself struggled with coming up with creative ways to write my papers, however, I’ve come to learn that certain topics, no matter how enthusiastically you describe them, just do not interest some people as much as they interest others. In Perl’s piece, I really related to the line “Constructing simultaneously affords discovery” (207). Often times when I’m writing my papers, I go into it not really knowing what I want to focus on at all. However, if I just write all of my thoughts out onto the paper, I end up creating a much better piece than I would have rather than if I went in with a weak topic. I also found the “Editing” section relatable. As young writers, I feel like punctuation, grammar, and syntactical structures are highly noted in papers. A lot of writers, like Tony, focus solely on the make up of their paper rather than the content. Sometimes I wonder if students feel like this because they think that’s all their teachers care about.
RJ Mahalak
ReplyDeleteEnc 1101- oMo4
Perl and Rose both make valid points when it comes to analyzing bad writers writing. As a bad writer, I can relate very well to both of these articles. The way Perl separated the readings into either extensive (objective) or reflective (personal) helped make a clear-cut distinction on what the writings will be like. When I write, I like to think I take an objective approach. Looking at a problem or situation from multiple angles. That is only if I can understand what I am writing about. The majority of high school I was writing to earn a grade, not to learn or think about the material. This type of writing has no viewpoints, and just basically gives a synopsis of the reading. I hated doing these assignments and it would completely turn me off to writing. How Perl describes the thought to writing process is 100 percent on point for these writings I would hate to do. Step 1- idea in my head. 2- translates idea into words and onto paper. 3- read what I have just written and try to understand my own idea. 4- use same idea to try and grow new sentences and ideas in my head. This process of writing is an exhausting habit, one that I am happy I eventually broke out of.
Rose discusses the writers “block” and talks about why and how this can happen to students. He links it to stress and a want/need of following the rules. Using Ruth as an example telling us she “needs to grab the attention of the audience immediately.” She is trying so hard to write grammatically correct sentences that her entire point is lost in an ocean of empty words. To get past this “block”, you have to be able to bend or even break the rules a tad. Getting your main ideas on the paper no matter what style if any you are modeling. After you have your ideas down you can edit and cut and tweak until you have it just right. I have come to find that writing is a process and it deserves to be treated as such.
I like to read others blog posts before writing my own and I love the comment posted at the end of Brooke Drebenstedt’s blog-
"write drunk, edit sober."
Orane Walters
ReplyDeleteENC 1101-0M03
If I had the opportunity to indulge in a conversion with Rose I might consider asking him to delve into his research of “Blockers” and “Nonblockers” and also how to overcome the idea of conceptual conflict of too many rules in order to increase the quality of one’s paper. In Mike Rose’s article, I can most definitely relate to most of the arguments and theories he brought forth in the text. The example of Ruth I could relate with very well due to the fact that I too, think about fear of evaluation and the due date when writing a piece. Also, it’s extremely hard for me to start an essay because of the deadline, I get really anxious, and the constraints such as the audience I’m addressing and grammar of which I have to write the paper hinders me from starting the paper. The so call “Blockers” that Mike Rose presents in his article about grabbing your audience is an unceasing problem that I seem to always have which leads to my point of having difficulty in the beginning stages of a thesis. Finally, the constraints/rules of the rhetorical situation such as “having three or more points in an essay” that Rose elaborates on are indeed troublesome for many writers; myself especially. Students are taught these rules and ways of approaches to a paper which I think is harsh on our cognition as students. This topic that Mike Rose proposes is an interesting one that many writers can relate to with all the rigid rules and inflexible planning that restrict writers from their true potential.
ENC 1101- 0M03
ReplyDeleteIf given the opportunity to speak with Mike Rose, it would be an honor. Being someone who has always taken a long time to process my thoughts onto paper and often a victim of writer’s block, learning from him would be an extraordinary experience. His research on what causes writers block is informative and something that is now of common knowledge. Rose points out why we encounter writer’s block and how we can avoid it. Writer’s block is something that occurs to the majority of writers and everyone has their ways around it. Some are caused by too many rules within the writing and can be avoided by carefully planning our writing.
Courtney Williams
ReplyDeleteENC1101 Omo6
After reading "The Composing Processes of Unskilled College Writers" written by Sondra Perl, I contacted her and asked if she would take the time to meet with me and discuss my thoughts and concerns. Shortly after, she responded to my email and set a date for that upcoming Sunday. As Sunday approached quickly, I began to plan out my questions I had for her; this reminded me of the prewriting section of her article. Our encounter came sooner than what felt five days and I was extremely pleased to have the opportunity to converse with her. Although I was only prepared with a couple of questions for her, I began by explaining to her how I can relate to much of her research and ideas. She did not seem shocked by this and responded by saying most people can relate to such writing aspects, especially people my age. I further explained how I understood this doesn't make me a "beginner" writer, but asked if this meant I was unskilled and need improvement. She told me that it doesn't mean I am an unskilled writer either, it simply means I could improve my writing process in the ways I relate to her ideas throughout the article. Thus meaning, I should try and improve my editing process. I explained to her that I often find myself pausing in between sentences and even in the middle of sentences which distracts and interrupts both my thinking and writing process thus resulting in errors throughout my paper. Giving me advice, Sondra explained that the writing process is often related to the reading process and that it links the language I use to the thoughts I process as I write. Although proofreading is a major part of the writing process, I should not allow myself to become distracted by going back and forth. She asked me if, like Tony's strength in the reflexive mode, I had a strength in either the extensive mode or the reflexive mode. I was puzzled with this question because I have never analyzed my writing process in such depth; however, along with this confusion brought curiosity into furthering understanding exactly what type of writer I am. During our conversation, she also gave me some more pointers. For example, she described how important it was as a writer to be able to connect with and understand the position of the reader. This I understood better because as a writer, your thoughts may need to be explained in a way the reader can also grasp. She also told me the next time I was to write a paper, to try and observe my own work, analyzing any possible patterns within its context. She went on to ask me what type of writing I felt most comfortable with. I had to think about this for a few seconds and finally told her that free writing was probably my least favorite. I need to have a clear topic to write about so I know exactly what it is I am going to express within my writing. I also told her that I can relate with Tony in which it is easier to write about a topic that I can personally relate to such as past experiences in my life. She wasn't shocked by this at all as it must be common in most writers. It was approaching six o'clock and Sondra had to get going. Before she left, she expressed her gratitudes and asked, to my surprise, if I would want to be a subject of study if there was ever to be another study in the future. I wasn't sure if this was a compliment or just the opposite. I smiled and told her to contact me if that were to ever be the case.
Brittany Callarman
ReplyDeleteENC1101 0M04
After reading both articles, I chose to write on Mike Rose. His stood out to me the most because I can take personal situations and relate them perfectly to what he went through over at UCLA. Rose and I can both relate, the most in waiting until the last minute to write that paper that is due in just a matter of time. He makes it clear that waiting until the last minute closes the horizon to what you have to write about leaving you with only a minimum amount of information to obtain to your papers. One thing I agree on that he discusses is keeping the audience in mind. Grabbing the audience’s attention is the main focus on a paper. Now and days, individuals are struggling with this because they are referring to algorithms rather than heuristics. They are basing their papers on a closed rule system and worrying to much about what is right and wrong rather than the intended information that was supposed to be given in that specific paper. Instead of the simple heuristic rule of “grabbing your audience” teachers are leaning more towards the algorithm approach of “always make 3 or more points in an essay”. With that being said, writer’s blocks are becoming a more common thing due to all specific rules and guidelines that are given to write a certain paper. If I could ask Rose two questions that first one would have to be, how successful do you believe your plans and tips are for the average individual? Will they jump instantly out of a writer’s block and become an intellectual writer? Second, how much faith do you have in your studies and strategies to make the one person with the worse case of writer block to overachieve it and become a successful writer?
Justin Kennedy
ReplyDeleteENC 1101 Mo3
After getting done with a workout session at the University of Central Florida, I always like to grab a bite to eat to rejuvenate my body from the couple hours of ripping muscle fibers I endured. Today I was yearning for the cheapness of Taco Bell to satisfy my hunger. After placing my order, receiving my food and sitting down, I notice that the guy sitting in front of me just happens to look like one of the authors that I saw a picture of in the “Writing About Writing” book for English. Crazy enough I had the book on me. Flipping through the pages I see that it is none other than Mike Rose who wrote the article, “Rigid Rules, Inflexible Plans, and the Stifling of Language”. Noticing this I had to talk to him, forgetting about my food I approached him in my post workout apparel and struck a conversation with him.
Starting off the conversation I casually introduced myself and explained to him about how I have read his article in the book “Writing About Writing” and how interesting I found it how he describes the process of writers block as well as the different set “rules” student writers tend to have for themselves that are learned over time. Looking presumably happy that I understood his article he replied,” It’s good seeing young student like yourself taking an interest in the writing process and reading my article on the different standards students learn over time through assumptions, teachers and books. Did you understand with each example given how I somewhat pinpointed the issue that individual had with their writing situations? Setting up their plans, making them more complex than they should have been, the problem solving mentality of it?” I simply replied back with,” Yes. Your writers block individual Ruth I understood and could even in a way relate to her constraints. I personally don’t plan when I write because I can’t organize my thought, they just come and I jot them down making a reasonable essay. With Ruth however while in high school how she was told that a good essay always grabs the reader’s attention immediately, I could relate because from middle school leading to high school I was told that as well. Following that rule just like Ruth I was also told that the thesis of the first paragraph is very important while developing a proper essay. I can see how that is in a way a block but it hasn’t inhibited with my writing. Is it a method you think that needs to be reevaluated when teaching developing writers?” Responding back to my question Rose replied,” I very well think it should be. From what you’re telling me it isn’t a rigid rule for you but many, many other students do have that trouble. Because most students will approach it thinking from an algorithmic state of mind that won’t let them progress due to precision of their nature. It seems to me that you are the opposite and have the thought process of a heuristic, you don’t exactly need a set solution but just one that is good enough to solve the problem.” Agreeing completely to his statement I replied back with,” Yeah you’re, from reading your article I have figured out a little bit more about my writing style and how I’m pretty grateful I don’t get extensive writers block like other writers.” After that I kindly bid him goodbye so that him and I could eat our food and I could make it on time for my biology class.
Madison King
ReplyDeleteENC 1101-OMO4
When reading both articles, I can really relate to the one where Mike Rose talks about writers block. If I ever got the chance to have a conversation with him I would tell him that I can relate one hundred percent. The one scenario that stands out most is Ruth’s story: trying to write an attention-grabber introduction. I’ve had teachers limit me to only using quotations, questions, onomatopoeias, and so on for the opening sentence of an essay; it can be a very difficult thing to do. It’s why introductions are what I hate most about essays. I would ask Rose to interview me so he could get an idea of my writing history, and give me a brief synopsis on what I would need to do to become a smoother writer. I feel that because of all these rules and formulas writing can become more of a math problem than a way to express creativity. I’d talk to Rose about any suggestions he has for me personally on how I can satisfy the requirements of my teacher and still have enough flexibility to write what I want. Writing shouldn’t be robotic; it should be free and easy just like music. That’s what I feel Rose is trying to explain here.
If I were to have the honor of meeting Ms. Perl I would ask her the following questions:
ReplyDelete- How does the composing process of skilled writers differ from that of unskilled writers?
- Why does she take it as such a positive sign that Tony and her other research participants’ composing processes are “consistent” rather then scattered or random?
- In the section of the article where Perl discusses how she developed her “code” of composing behaviors I would ask her how she put this “code” together.
- Why does she think Tony continuously edited his paper before it was fully written?
If I were to have the honor of meeting with Mr. Rose I would ask him the following questions:
- Based on your own study and descriptions of writers and their rules, can you write a “rule” explaining what makes a rule good for writers?
- Can a rule be both non-blocking a blocking at the same time?
- If students were never concerned with the “rules” of writing do you think “writers block” would still thrive?
After reading both The Composing Processes of Unskilled College Writers by Sondra Perl and Rigid Rules, Inflexible Plans, and the Stifling of Language by Mike Rose I’ve realized that many of my own experiences parallel with those discussed in both of their studies. In the piece by Perl she addresses how one of her subjects Tony continuously edited his paper before he finished the writing process. In the fifth grade I continuously struggled to write papers because everything that I had be previously taught before this taught me that grammar was the most important part of a good piece of writing. Another similarity I can compare my own experiences to is the fact that Tony could easily speak aloud whole sentences, but when it came time to write them he struggled. This feels like a page out of my own life story because I too use to struggle with composing written pieces even though I had more then solid ideas. Addressing how things change overtime, I believe that the same sort of composing difficulties that “beginner” writers have would still thrive today. These “beginners” are able to formulate educated ideas, but struggle to put these ideas on paper.
On the side of the piece by Mike Rose, my own experiences parallel that of the “writers block”. Like Sylvia I too have struggled over an over again to get a paper started because of a desire for a strong opening paragraph. I can honestly say now that all of the writers block I’ve ever experienced, comes from the fear of producing less then adequate work accompanied by the thought that a good paper must start with a strong opening paragraph.
Peter Hoang
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The article that I can relate to more is Mike Rose’s article on Writer’s Block. I too experience writer’s block from time to time, dating back to when I first moved to Florida and had to learn quickly and prepare myself for the FCAT writing test. In middle school I learned that a good writing outline to a prompt would be a main idea and three supporting examples toward that main idea. So an introduction, three small body paragraphs, and the conclusion. The only problem is that during practice writing sessions, I could only think of two good supporting examples for the main idea, with the third example usually not relating to the main idea so I would experience writer’s block during those sessions and would struggle with time management. Because of what my middle school teacher taught me, I stick to that “rule” and struggled and barely passed the FCAT writing test for that year. It wasn’t till 10th grade that I saw improvement in my writing. My English teacher taught a different method of approaching a prompt, a main idea and two big supporting examples instead of three. So now I would write an essay that included a introduction, two main body paragraphs, and the conclusion. This method was so much easier for me because I could expand and write a lot more details in my two example paragraphs. With more practice of this method, I quickly saw how much my writing improved and how I felt confident on the writing test day and easily passed. My planning strategy between both teachers stayed the same in a 45 minute writing session, first five minutes were spent planning, thirty minutes to write out the essay, and the last 10 minutes were for rereading and correcting any mistakes. So I pretty much agree with one observation that Rose figured was that whatever rules and planning strategies students learned could impede rather than enhance their writing process as I have experience this situation during middle school. Another important aspect that I agree with Rose is the importance of the introduction of an essay. My high school teacher has constantly remind my class that the graders of the FCAT writing test would have to read paper after paper of the same prompt. This tedious work could bore them easily, so having a catchy introduction with a twist could enable them to be more interested and focus on grading your essay.
Jasmine Tagle
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I agree more with Rose’s theories on writers block. I can identify with some of his blockers as well as some of his non-blockers. For example, Ruth was taught to grab the readers attention at the start of her essay and Laurel was taught to make at least three points in her thesis. I was taught the same things in middle and high school. Although I can see the flexibility in those rules as a non-blocker would. Those rules don’t block my writing because I can see around them the way the non-blockers do. In the case of a non-blocker Rose observed, Debbie was taught the same rule as Laurel yet Debbie does not suffer from writer’s block as Laurel does. Rose says the difference between the blocker and the non-blocker in that situation is that Debbie can see that goals are mutable. Myself being more similar to Debbie, I can see when something needs to be changed regardless if that is a rule I have learned since middle school. If something does not seem correct I follow my instincts and it usually works out because I am still abiding by the guidelines, I am just tweaking them a bit. Therefore, I completely agree with Rose’s theory. Rose’s theory that the rules his blockers were using were not wrong but being used as algorithms, forcing the students to follow them precisely “rather than the loose heuristics that they were intended to be” is completely correct in my opinion.
If I were to meet Perl in particular I would have a lot of question regarding how to improve my writing. My first questing would be how could you maintain your focus while writing? I would ask her this question because I am a free writer and I can’t stay focused on one prompt while writing. This becomes a problem for me whenever I have an essay to write for class. If I was to interact with Perl I would need to maintain a formal attitude and speak formally because she is a great writer.
ReplyDeleteOne aspect of Perl’s research that I identify with was the prewriting. During the prewriting session the students would immediately begin writing without planning. I find that I do this all the time. As a free writer I tend to have a lot of idea that I combined together in order to lengthen my essay. I tend to not do any prewriting which hinders me in staying on topic.
Krystine Colon
ReplyDeleteENC 1101 OM06
When reading both Sondra Perl and Mike Rose text, I found myself more in tune with Mike Rose’s text on writer’s block. If I had the opportunity to speak with Rose, I would mention some points about the rules and plans of writing. I would question the purpose of rules when writing, and whether or not there are other way around the rules of writing but without getting to far from the writing itself. It feels as though putting rules on writing is like the rules in Mathematical solving. I find it difficult to write when rules are places and nothing can be changed. Not to mention if the rules follow into the plans that need to be made in order to have a mind set of what to write about. My case is similar to that of Mike’s, one of the college students mentioned in the text. Once I am to have a plan, I am to move on with that plan, but if it’s not following the rules or if I am feeling stuck from move forward to another plan that I am also on writers block like Mike. Rose gives example of how writers block may start and how to keep you away from these situations. Once Rose hears my questions and concerns regarding writer’s block, he would inform that “If a rule conflicts with what is sensible or with experience, reject it.” Rose would tell me strategies non-blockers have experienced when receiving writer’s blocks and what they would do to get out of writer’s block.
Getting to imagine a sit down with Ms. Sondra Perl was a very enlightening experience. While touching base on some details of the study described in her essay, "The Composing Processes of Unskilled College Writers", I decided to come up with questions I may one day decide to ask her.
ReplyDeleteFor example, I would ask Perl if she believes that the same behavioral subsequences of prewriting, writing, and editing that appeared in no skilled writers would also appear in skilled writers as well?
Also, Perl's operations was very detailed (even though some factors were omitted), to that I would ask, how she came across creating these operations? and if she felt that other things could rationally be added?
Finally, why offer minimal cues, that will be insufficient for meaning to outside readers, and then be discouraged when writers tend to use them?
What I seemed to focus on the most was the operations, and what I could myself doing if I were placed in this experiment. I found myself questioning how often I would perform each of them when writing anything at all. I usually find myself reading directions repeatedly, interpreting, writing silently, reading a number of sentences together, editing (grammatical, punctuation, verbs, and concern for appropriate vocabulary). This to me seems like my writing process, and I would simply be very intrigued to find out what my final code would come out to be. I definitely believe that there is an interdisciplinary way of seeing Perl's experiment. For example, this could help not only writing processes of unskilled college writers, but skilled writers, grad students, professors, etc. find out their writing style and process. I believe this tools could be used in any department in a university, from physical sciences to liberal arts.
I believe that I, alongside many others may sympathies more with Mike Rose's piece. Writers block is a very potent, sometimes un- addressed issue. When looking back at Rose's essay, "Rigid Rules, Inflexible Plans, and the Stifling of Language", some questions do arise for this author.
First off, how did he formulate the format in which he wrote his paper? Using his students as prime examples was a phenomenal idea!
Second, why did he introduce fundamental plans such as TOTE? He never continued to fully elaborate on them, so why bring them up?
Lastly, are writing tutorials and effectively oriented counseling sessions some of the only treatments? Would like some more information on this topic.
I strongly believe that Rose made it his mission to fully incorporate in his essay all types of writers. I personally sympathized with the writing styles he described coming from Ellen (who had an outline in her head, but couldn't explain it) and of course Debbie (who believed in the power of positive and negative feedback.) Due to his broad interpretation of writers, I also believe that Rose's findings could be interpreted in a interdisciplinary way. From speech writers, to college students, everyone suffers from writers block and it is important to address why your writers block is emerging in enable to tackle to problem head on.
Edgar Ortiz
ReplyDeleteENC 1101 0M04
I was fascinated by the Sondra Perl's idea to study unskilled writers more often. It is understandable that skilled writers get the best out of everything but we must not ignore the unskilled ones. What if they simply need a bit of help? Or if they didn't get the education they needed? Last week I had a meeting with Ms. Perl at Starbucks to discuss her projects. Of course it's been more than 30 years since she wrote the article about unskilled college writers, I still think her methods of data analysis were still useful but I suggested the use of modern technology as a means of improving research. She agreed as she was indeed fascinated by today's computers and possibilities. I believe myself to be an alright writer but I actually took examples of her research and process steps, like the prewriting, amount of time spent on sentences, behavior, and many others. We discussed Tony, who was an interesting subject. As a high school drop-out, most of his writings felt completed when they actually weren't. Having a lot of grammar mistakes and little ideas actually made Perl point out some of the major flaws and things to keep in mind when writing. I believe that these results will aid future college writers like me to improve their writing through behavior, prewriting and editing. In the end I asked Ms Perl to perform a modern test on me using the code she made up for Tony to see where I can improve my writing and how would I would ultimately do best, if writing loud with music or with the gold of silence. I guess every writer has their successful personal methods and weaknesses that kill off their skills. There is always space for improvement and learning how you do in an essay so don't be afraid to take Ms. Perl's test if you wish to pass the class with an A or if you're an English major.
Kelly Costa
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Blog Post 6
I became interested in Mike Rose’s paper off the bat because I knew the feeling of trying to get a paper done at the last minute. I definitely like how he made it seem that since Ruth waited until the last second to write her paper, it made her have writers block because she was in a rush. He goes on to explain that this last minute writer’s block makes our resultant grades not really reflect our writing ability. He also states that when we receive these bad grades it makes us doubt our abilities and not enjoy writing. I very much related to this theory because so many times I have had teachers give me bad grades because it was not what they wanted to read. This made me turn off from writing to the point that I would sigh every time I was assigned a writing project. If teachers would grade more on the meaning of the writing than the grammar then I think many more students would be interested in writing. Rose shoes an example of this with Ruth also because she keeps deleting her sentences and starting over because she thinks it is not what the teacher wants. I am very much like Sylvia; I also think the first paragraph is the most important part. For one it is what grabs the audience in, and sets the foundation for the entire paper. I very much enjoyed Rose’s main point that people with writers block are not necessarily troubled, but more like trying to find their own groove. If I ever got the chance to sit with Rose my first words would be, “Help me please.”
When I read the excerpt about Ruth (from Mike Rose’s “Rigid Rules, Inflexible Plans, and the Stifling of Language), I immediately identified with her form of “writer’s block”, as I too try to wow my readers with a grasping, unforgettable introduction and find myself angry, upset, and frustrated if I feel it is not good enough. Like Ruth, I will erase or delete my sentences until I finally manage to write something that meets my standards. I also felt that my occasional writers block was similar to Mike’s, because I also plan out what I will write and if my expectations are not met, I have an extremely difficult time coming up with alternative points and approaches. Rose says that Mike’s approach to making plans and carrying them through to problem solution is too mechanical, which leads me to wonder why…why is it too mechanical? I would love for Rose to elaborate on this. In the section “A Plan That Is Not a Plan”, Mike’s so-called “plans” are analyzed by Rose, who says they are instead “ inflexible and static cognitive blueprints.” In other words, Mike demonstrates a “closed system” way of thinking, where he focuses on a limited number of items and members that do not change. After reading this section, I realized I also have this “closed system” way of thinking like Mike does. Once I get an idea in my head, I cannot let go of it. For example, when I am writing a paper in history, it must have three points at least, and once I determine what these points are, they will not change, as my mind won’t allow it. I agree with Rose’s point that the main difference between blockers and non-blockers is that “the goals these people have, and the plans they generate to attain these goals, are quite mutable.” I find that if my specific plans work for me and meet my expectations, I don’t have writer’s block. However, if my specific plans don’t meet expectations, I do have writer’s block, as my plans are not mutable usually. As Rose concluded his article, he commented that he was able to help Mike by pointing out the dysfunctional qualities in his plans and by assisting him in developing appropriate and flexible alternatives. Personally, this was good to read as it means that with proper guidance, even I could find a way to overcome my writer’s block and closed system of thinking. It is apparent that problems faced by writers in 1980, when Rose wrote his article, are still faced by writers today, as I display the same writers block that Mike did.
ReplyDeleteKristen Keenan
ENC 1101-0M04
I am walking down the street and it seems that Mike Rose is standing at a stoplight a few hundred feet away from me. I run over to him and ask him, “How do you think teachers can make a change in students’ writing abilities if many of the rules are rooted in the schooling system?” He tells me, “I don’t know what you want from me. Please leave me alone.” A bit discouraged from his reply, I ask, “If a student feels that he cannot write effectively is it possible that he will never be able to?” He starts crossing the street quickly and I get no response. Feeling stubborn, I walk quickly toward him and ask, “How could we create general guidelines as to how one should write, so each school will not differ in writing standards?” He asks, “Who do you think I am?” I say, “Mike Rose!” He says, “Nope.” Feeling embarrassed, I walk off thinking that my view on the way writing is taught is similar to Rose’s view. Furthermore, I have had experiences like those of his student participants. For instance, I, like Debbie, was taught in middle school that my paper should only have three points. When I get writer’s block, I try to write in order to keep the flow going; an idea Rose mentioned in one of his passages. Rose and Perl bring about the idea that many students’ lack of writing skill is due to their teachers’ ways of teaching. They both seem to believe that with enough research and application, teaching methods may be enhanced in order to better students’ writing.
ReplyDeleteDavid Lipszyc
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Matt Concelmo
ReplyDeleteENC 1101-OM06
After reading both articles, I would choose Sondra Perl to have a conversation with. I can relate with her writing, for example, her section about editing was similar to instances I had in grade school. When editing work, students like me would focus on the specifics within the work, such as grammar or spelling. Although this is beneficial for the writer, proper editing must go deeper, and Perl touched on this. Her example with the student Tony provides evidence of this. Tony main editing changes were spelling, where only 24 changes had to do with the substance of his writing. This is the same when a student is editing another pupil’s work. It is hard for a student who is editing another’s paper to be on the same page mentally as the writer; editors cannot rework the ideas that the writer may have been going for in the paper, especially if they are focused on error hunting. The inability to provide scholarly editing helps explain Perl’s question about the manner at which composing is taught in school. Her findings showed that when the students applied the correct composing process, the students would soon grasp the techniques of skilled writers. So does this mean that it is the schools’ fault for producing students that are “unskilled writers”? Instead of teaching about substance, specifics, and not being wrong, it is important for students to demonstrate their ideas with confidence.
Taylor Beam
ReplyDeleteENC 1101- 0m06
While I was at the campus library, I ran into Mike Rose, author of, "Rigid Rules, Inflexible Plans, and the Stifling of Language: A Cognitivist Analysis of Writer's Block", So I asked him to help me with some strategies on how to deal with my writer's block. I told him how I could relate to his student's he mentioned in his writing with writer's block, how I too struggled writing rules and planning strategies. He asked me what I struggled with specifically. I told him how I struggled with basically the same thing his students in his writing struggled with. I have a hard time starting my writing to make it fit into what I want to talk about but also be an interesting hook. I get so stressed and worked up that It usually doesn't go very well. He told me that writing should be more of a flowing movement than a conscious effort. I asked him if I should try to do my writing assignments ahead of time instead of procrastinating and waiting until the last opportunity. He said yes. The stress of leaving a writing assignment to the last opportunity can be a cause for the writer's block.
Imagining that I was having a conversation with Sondra Perl, the author of ‘The Composing Process of Unskilled College Writers’, I probably wouldn’t have the same discussion about her writing as I am going to have now, since I would be far too nervous to say half of what I am going to write. However, there are a few questions I would definitely ask her concerning her study and her analysis of the composing process of unskilled writers.
ReplyDeleteThe first thing I would mention is that I really enjoyed reading her text and think that it was a really good idea of her focusing on unskilled writers. I often have had the feeling that, especially in language classes, many teachers only concentrate on their good students, who they encourage, and forget about the students who have got huge difficulties in writing and therefore aren’t able to deliver good essays.
Moreover, I think that her method of analyzing the composing processes leads, through the standardized coding system and the developed patterns, to some evidence, which can be really useful for teachers but especially also for students. At this point I would ask Perl, why she, with her studies, sets the focus on supporting the teachers in helping their students. Wouldn’t it be far more effective to put the students in first place? I think the results which the study leads to are really significant and can be really helpful for the students. I assume that the results were shown to the students, but I still would prefer Perl’s motivation to be the students’ improvement and not the teachers’. Talking about teachers, I think the fact that it was assumed ‘that the teacher was always the audience’ (p.194), does, to a certain extent, influence the student’s process. The audience plays especially towards the mentioned ‘egocentricity’ a significant role. Would the students perhaps provide more information if the audience wasn’t their teacher? Would they perhaps clarify different aspects if they assumed that people of little knowledge about the particular topic would read their essay? I guess this is an aspect which can perhaps be worked on to get the students to clarify their thoughts. This is something I always was told by several people. “Always consider that your audience has no clue what you are writing about.” It definitely helps. Perl also mentions that the students’ recursiveness has a ‘clarifying effect’. I do agree that rereading written paragraphs give new ideas. My concern about this however is that if one rereads his work too often it has a huge impact on the writer’s fluency. I think it would be helpful to create something like a first draft to put all the ideas on the paper and then to reread the writing several times. Here, of course, the students’ missing ability to change what is written also has to be considered. Many students, as Perl mentions, lack the ability “for inventions or change” (p.200) and have difficulties with rewriting several sentences of particular paragraphs.
Reading Perl’s text, I recognized many problems, analyzed through the study, which also apply to me. The results concerning the different types of topics, extensive and reflexive topics, totally accord to my composing habits. I have experienced that it’s much easier writing about personal, reflexive topics simply due to the closeness to the particular topic. The bigger amount of words, less repetition, less pauses and a higher fluency when dealing with reflexive topics are all results which also occur to me when I am processing my own essay. So I think even though Perl’s study was conducted thirty years ago, many of its results still apply to students nowadays.
ReplyDeleteHaving mentioned the fluency of writing, I would probably try to discuss another point towards her study. The composing style sheets, as Perl explained, provide information about pauses in the composing process both between sentences and within sentences. I think that these pauses can easily be overstated. According to what I have experienced, these noticeable pauses often don’t mean that I am ‘stuck’ with a particular sentence. They more have a ‘giving-my-brain- a-break’ reason. I admit that especially when writing really long essays or papers, I am not able to intensively focus for the whole time that I am working on my writings. I, obviously not within single sentences, often stop after a sentence, have a short break, and after a few seconds start over again with a bunch of new ideas.
Having written this short essay, I have realized that I actually would really like to get in contact with Sondra Perl to discuss her writing, since I have several questions that I would love to talk about. In the end I can say that her study concerning the analysis of composing process habits was a great success and, since finally the results are graphically evidenced, can have a huge impact on the improvement of writing skills in the future. The composing style sheets provide information about certain patterns which can perfectly be used to compare several students and their composing processes. I can only recommend reading ‘The Composing of Unskilled College Writers’ since I was able to relate many results on my own composing habits and therefore hopefully can use them to improve my own skills.
I'd prefer to have a conversation with Mike Rose about his piece "Rigid Rules, Inflexible Plans, and the Stifling of Language: A Cognitivist Analysis of Writer's Block". I liked the TOTE problem solving method that he described. I feel like that's a great way to solve a problem because it addresses all the main areas when trying to solve a problem. I'd love to ask him if he has every experienced writer's block and if so, how did he overcome it? I also liked how he talked about the "rules". I agree with the idea that "algorithms are precise rules that will always result in a specific answer if applied to the appropriate problem"(239), but I've never thought about my problems in writing with that mind set. I related to the way Rose explained the difference between "set" and "plan". I'm always "set" to write because I know the prompt and I'm accustomed to writing essays because I've been writing them for so long. The planning part is where I struggle. I usually fail to make a plan about what I want to write before I start writing. I believe that if I spend more time with the planning part, my writing could greatly improve.
ReplyDeleteConnor Waugh ENC 1101-0M04
ReplyDeletePersonally, I quite enjoyed “The Composing Processes of Unskilled Writers” by Sondra Perl. I thought her take on the research of college level writing was unique in the fact that she didn’t focus on the average or above average writer, as one would normally read about. I have always been very conscious about my own writing and curious to know whether I am a truly effective, or at least average writer. I thought it was interesting to read about how Perl attempted to gauge the student’s writing level with the actual writing of the paper itself, as opposed to the content. If given the opportunity to talk with Sondra, I would ask her the other subjects of the study. She seemed to focus on Tony, but not really delve into the others. I would also like to ask whether or not she attempted this study on younger students, say middle school students who just started the critical writing process, and what she might hypothesize would be the outcome. I might also ask whether or not she knew of anyone who had recreated her study, given the fact that every detail laid out made it possible to recreate, and whether or not their findings matched up with hers and how she felt about them. It would be interesting to get her take on whether or not she could have been more effective with her work, such as changing the process in which she took in order to better her results. I would very much like to know her opinion on whether or not she would do the same tests with students that were average and even above average in the field of writing to compare her studies with. It would be interesting to find the similarities and differences of the processes of both forms of writers and possibly discover the most effective writing practice. It would also be good to get her experience with helping teachers help their students with their writing, if she did. After reading this article, I’m actually kind of excited to attempt to monitor my own writing to see how my own writing practice is compared to that of Tony’s.
Ever since I began writing, it was drilled into my head to grab the audience’s attention right off the bat. My most common writer’s block, is extremely similar to Ruth’s. I’ve always been told to be appealing, interesting, and to spark the audience’s interest as much as possible when writing the first paragraph of a paper. When I write freely and with no restrictions, I find that I do not prefer this format of writing. I like to have the first paragraph as an intro or a beginning, which will then evolve and become more exciting as the paper continues. Although this is the way I prefer to write, I force myself to do my best to make the first paragraph as intriguing as I can, even if I do not feel that is the best way for my paper to be formatted. Oftentimes, I find myself stuck and unable to think of words that are interesting enough to grab the audience’s attention. Once I finish writing the first paragraph, the rest of the paper comes easier to me. That first paragraph is what gets me stuck everytime. I sit and think for long amounts of time just to find the perfect sentences to express my point in a creative and exciting way. Rose makes a point that our blocker’s aren’t necessarily right or wrong, but rather, they are too often followed as law opposed to loose heuristics. In my case, I definitely follow the “grab your audience with a catchy opening” law more literally than I probably should. When I read about the non-blockers and how they would write even if they were stuck, discarding their rules and plans, I realized that I have a difficult time doing that myself. As Rose states, the main difference between the blockers and the non-blockers is that the non-blockers’ goals and plans are quite mutable. Due to my emphasis on my first paragraph and my goal of attempting to make a perfect first paragraph, I find that my goal isn’t quite mutable. Rose comments that after interviewing the students with writer’s block, it often revealed that a rigid rule or inflexible plan was the basis of the students’ writing problem. After reading this article, I have become aware that my early teachings of the importance of grabbing the audience’s attention has resulted in my writer’s block.
ReplyDeleteSkylar Summers
ReplyDelete2.11.13
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Mr. Rose, it is an honor to meet you and I am thankful that you have taken the time out of your day to have this conversation with me about “ Rigid Rules, Inflexible Plans, and the Stifling of Language”. There are so many ways that my writing history can relate to your case studies and discoveries you have made! I know teachers look for certain requirements while grading papers, don’t you feel its hard to write as a student when you know a teacher is waiting with there juicy red pen ready to cross out numerous errors? Ruth, one of the undergraduates at UCLA was discussed in your article. To get into a prestigious school like UCLA, you had to have the teachers in the back of your head as you write papers and do assignments. Following the rules probably got Ruth into that institution, along with her intellectual ability. I can relate closely to Mike. Mike’s problems occurred in the problem-solving process. My whole strategy begins with, “how can I get an A on the assignment and what does the teacher want?” Writing for the SAT or ACT, I would always plan out exactly what I wanted to write down. When it came to the topic I would construct a great plan and halfway through my paper it would not align to the topic given. I would “offer a great deal of information” P.243 like Mike, but wouldn’t be on par with the given topic. I’m sorry for being straightforward with you Mr. Rose, but I’m just trying to get my point across before I forget what I had to say. I would say the teachers are “The blockers” p.242 for me. Surprisingly, throughout my schooling, I have satisfied their wants and desires and received decent grades. As I look at papers now, it is a blank piece of paper that you can freely write whatever you like as it pertains closely to the topic. Don’t be afraid to go outside the lines. There are rules, guidelines and concepts given, but like you said Mr. Rose, you have “to know which rules are appropriate for which problems” p.248. By having a flexible plan you are capable of have alternatives to writing. “If you could construct a rule list, what would be on there?”
Kaitlyn Huber
ReplyDeleteENC 1101 OMo6
I enjoyed reading Sondra Perl’s piece, “The Composing Processes of Unskilled College Writers”. She thoroughly examines the writing process that all of us experience. The goal of her research was to answer three major questions concerning the writing process, those questions being; how do unskilled writers write? Can their writing process be analyzed? What does an advanced knowledge of their process suggest about the nature of their writing?
If I had the privilege of meeting with Sondra Perl I would feel intimidated to say the least. I would probably speak as if I was walking on eggshells. She derived such a deep analysis of the students in her research. I would think that it’s hard for her to edit speech as she listens to it. However, I would ask her question about her studies. Did she come up with any methods on her own or did she pull samples from other researchers? Approximately how long did it take her to finalize a data analysis for one student? Did she come across many people with the same results as Tony?
I feel as if Tony’s writing process may very well line up with my own. I find myself taking long periods of time just writing a single paragraph. I go back to read the prompt I’m responding to often and go over what I have written so far even if it isn’t finished. I am a perfectionist about my writing and feel like it never seems decent enough. Though there are many more differences than likenesses between Tony, the ex-marine, and myself, I can see some comparable tendencies in our writing processes.
Matthew Simpson
ReplyDeleteENC 1101-0M04
From these passages, I was able to identify with the processes that Rose laid out in his writing. I can identify with both points of both blockers and non-blockers. In relation to blockers, I generally cannot get the idea out of my structure that the first paragraph has to catch the attention of the reader as soon as he or she begins to read the writing. In affect it makes me put too much time into my open paragraph or ideas and I end up having to hash out a body work that isn't necessarily to my liking or full on topic. With non-blockers, I was always taught that in my introduction to have as many points as I feel is necessary, not three or more. This has been able to give some of my writing a better flow and overall helps strengthen my writing and my writing process. Rose also talks about some blockers being more like algorithms rather than loose heuristics. Figuring out this or being taught this would have helped me out far more than an algorithmic approach in my writing. If I could ask Rose anything, it would be how would your work help my writing in other fields rather than prose? Would it help in a medical field? The second question would be how can we change our teachers minds about some of these algorithms and blockers?
Vivienne Do
ReplyDeleteENC-1101 0M-04
I am personally fond of Rose’s research in comparison of Perl’s. Although both exhibit the same approach on the relations of deep analysis within the mind and the writer’s ability to express verbally vs. by writing; Rose’s explanations focused on a more general broad aspect that most readers- like myself- can relate to. Perl’s research showed great complexity, but the overall justification of her research showed that in which we touched upon the video of Sherman’s.. the focus on math and science is destroying creativity in a sense of how we organize our thoughts.
Writer’s block is something I personally relate to when I’m taking a timed test, that requires an essay to be written. Usually, I start off with a paragraph that is somewhat well constructed, then I proceed onto the body of the essay, by this time I look at the clock to see where I am at as far as my time- holy cows! I have approximately three minutes and counting the time I’m panicking to conjure up a decent conclusion. Unfortunately, like Rose’s explanation that TIME is the underlying factor of ‘’writer’s block,’’ I end up writing about something absolutely off-topic and irrelevant. It’s really interesting reading about the subjects Rose used that had serious writer’s block. I think the main reason why they couldn’t write was because they simply did not know what was deemed ‘’correct’’ as far as sentence structure and grammar wise. This reminds me of the lecture we had earlier in this course about what exactly is correct in relations to proper writing techniques and skills? Is there really a certain format we should follow, in order to produce a well-constructed form of writing? I want to challenge Rose in terms of his beliefs of writer’s block is produced by past instructions on how to formulate a sentence, that the writer is afraid that his writing does not make sense, etc. Does writer’s block come from past literacy experience, or does it come from the author’s lack of creativity and self-awareness of thought? Perhaps both are factors or writer’s block, but I believe people are definitely able to express themselves if given the right environment and time. For example, if you’re a victim of sexual abuse, you’ll probably be silent as a rock talking to your mother about it. However, if you put that same victim in a group full of other people that were sexual abused, you can relate to them more comfortably and talk to them. Rose’s explanation on deadline is the most common factor of writer’s block, which is mainly related to STRESS. When we stress our minds, we tend to overthink everything, which makes us ultimately confused on what the heck we were suppose to be thinking about in the first place. Going back to my theory on self-awareness of thought, with the experiments conducted by Perl, we can conclude that beginner writers usually misrepresent their thoughts due to grammar errors and poor word choice. It isn’t that they cannot formulate clear ideas, but rather they fail in executing the ideas in writing. I find this conclusion to be relevant to my recent argument with my boyfriend. He proposed that people commonly write how they speak; if they have poor word choice in speech, it will correspond to poor vocabulary in terms of writing. I disagreed with this matter, stating that although writing and speaking do correlate with one another slightly, the overall effect is how the writer is able to process their thoughts mentally. It’s not merely how they form sentences, but rather what is causing them to form those sentences.
Amanda Cramer
ReplyDeleteENC1101-OMO4
I could certainly relate to Mike Rose’s work, “Rigid Rules, Inflexible Plans, and the Stifling of Language: A Cognitivist Analysis of Writer’s Block”. I believe that writing is a gradual process and that forcing it leads to poor results. I have experienced the apprehensions that suppress the flow of words, the anxiety, the insecurity, and everything in between. I disagree with the statement that you must “always grab your audience” immediately in order to create a successful paper. Who’s to say that a gradual build up cannot have the same “punch” as a punch line that opens the paper immediately? Sometimes, I can even agree with him when he says that he feels “trapped inside his original plan”, rather than letting it grow and transform with the flow of new ideas and the progression of time. I am growing out of this thought process though, because it’s a destructive way to finish a product. If you don’t like the ideas you’re incorporating within your piece, they will reach their wear-out point much quicker than expected, and leave the paper without the “grab” necessary to maintain the audience’s attention. If I were given the opportunity to interact with him, I’d discuss the differences between the non-blockers and the blockers and determine how to go about transforming my writing mentality to enable a free-flow of thoughts. I would also ask him how he would personally help another to escape the trouble of writer’s block, and what his personal process would be in order to move forward within a work. I wish, like the non-blockers, I could just write until my work made more sense. If I had that ability, I’d be able to work through the block with ease.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNicholas Perez de la Mesa
ReplyDeleteENC1101-0m06
If i had to have a personal converstation with one of the two authors for this week I would have to choose Rose. Although his style can very easily be considered unorthodox, i agree entirely with his idea that writing should be a much more fluid, creative, dynamic process that allows the author to put more emotions and feeling into his or her work. This idea of placing passion into writing I believe makes the writing much better overall and also allows the author to also delve deeper into themselves as they create their work . I also believe that allowing students to write in a more free process allows the author to enjoy the overall process as well.
Though both readings were interesting to me because they both applied to my life in one way or another, but I thought that I related more to Mike Rose’s “Rigid Rules, Inflexible Plans, and the Stifling of Language.” He talks about how its hard for people to think of topics and introductions to readings that they do. He uses the example of Ruth that she will just sit with writers block and not know what to write. I believe that this topic is very important especially to a college student like myself in an English class. Its important because there are a lot of students that put off doing essays and writing homework because they don’t know what they should say or how to make it interesting. I know firsthand what that feels like. I am not a very good writer nor do I even like writing very much because I am afraid that I’m not good at capturing the audience attention or not writing about the right topic. Since I am so afraid of writing I always wait and put off my work until the very last minute and then I feel rushed and stressed. If I could talk to Rose I would talk to him more in depth about what he calls “non-blockers” and what I might be able to do to help myself with my writing process.
ReplyDeleteCody Showers
ReplyDeleteENC 1101-0M04
If I were to have the opportunity to speak with Mike Rose on the topic of his research, I could likely relate with situations he has outlined in his work “Rigid Rules, Inflexible Plans, and the Stifling of Language: A Cognitive Analysis of Writer’s Block. ” My experience with dealing with situations outside of writing has relied heavily by defining how I will deal with the situation before hand. Where I falter in action is when I am unable to adjust to the needs of the situation if they differed from my preconception. Moreover, I can easily visualize the tactic he used to break down problems that occur for people who are stuck writing. Breaking it down into smaller components that are easier to visualize and deal with is a tactic I am no stranger to. This being said, I would have some questions for him in regards to his recommendations.
His overall critique of being bound to strict rules or a plan of writing makes sense; however for those of us with a propensity to be lost in thought, disorganized or on a subject with too much information too little foresight into the approach of paper can lead to indecision and delay. Is there any advice he can provide to those who find themselves in this situation to help make them shift from rules to heuristics or from plans to sets? For a writer who is skilled and prepared to advance after their original block is removed, responding more flexibly to a situation can move things along and produce a better overall quality work. For a writer who is not as skilled or perhaps unsure of more than one step along the way more ambiguity could lead to more opportunities for hesitation or indecision. Is there a test or check that such a writer might use to know that their modification to remove a block would be better overall for the assignment?
One might also realize that this sort of preparedness for writing is applicable in nearly every discipline and to a certain extent is near essential in any problem solving application. If one is attempting to solve any complex issue not being locked into a possibly inapplicable scenario can save time and energy. If a programmer is fixated on writing a bit of code a particular way before the entire scope is given, that can make it more difficult to solve, as they may try to include methods that were already written or unnecessary for the application. If a manager is approached with an issue with an employee and they are unwilling to consider modifying their normal approach for personality, they may end up having a much more difficult time convincing the employee to shift their actions.
I can easily admit that I relate the most to Mike Rose’s article on “writer’s block”. The manner in which he elaborated on the subject entirely changed the way I ever looked at this so called “writer’s block”. As I was reading and annotating the text, I was simultaneously evaluating my own thinking process while writing. I have come to realize that the reason I have ever gotten “stuck” has been due to two things: (1) My high school teachers’ influence on my writing and (2) my incessant need for perfection. As explained by Rose, with the aid of his studies on the students who admitted to having writer’s block, writing is meant to be fluid and is not meant to be solved by algorithms. My high school teachers had me convinced that the only way to write a well-composed essay, was to start off with an attention grabbing introduction—the exact problem that Sylvia (one of the participants in his study) had the misfortune of having. Like her, I spend hours on the beginning paragraph because of the scheme that was embedded into my brain many years ago. Coincidently, this ties in to my constant need for perfection. I have difficulty proceeding with a piece of writing until every component of the essay is as close to perfect as possible. I realize that this slows down my thinking process and can really have a negative impact on the flow of my ideas. If I had the privilege of speaking with Perl Rose, I would plead my case and would will him to study my literacy process in the hopes of figuring out a solution for my problem.
ReplyDeleteBrandon VanLandingham
ReplyDeleteENC 1101 OM06
I feel that the person I connect to the most is Mike Rose because I tend to have writers block a lot more often than I feel it is wanted. According to Mike Rose this is only solved by eliminating the stress you are having. One of the questions I would ask is if that would be false for me and some other people because for some people they write better with a lot of stress or at least a little stress still on them. I believe this is more likely to be accurate than having no stress at all because if you at least have some stress you will feel the need and want to overcome the challenge the stress give you. But if you got rid of all the stress you might lose some of the challenge which could cause the person doing the paper to lose interest and not want to write it again. Another question I might ask is if having some stress causes problem solving, could that also apply to other things such as sports, math, or pretty much anything. Assuming that it does apply to everything, if I was able to master this state could I write or do everything else it applies to my maximum potential. The final question I would ask is what made you go to math for rules of writing. Also I had to look up interdisciplinary to make sure I was sure what it meant. I believe that some of what Rose says is interdisciplinary and will apply to just about anything you do.
Emily Nakis
ReplyDeleteENC 1101-0M04
Mike Rose’s arguments presented in, “Rigid Rules, Inflexible Plans, and the Stifling of Language: A Cognitivist Analysis of Writer’s Block” are what I felt I related with the most. As students, we are given many writing assignments, and personally throughout these assignments I have come to face my fair share of writers block. I was taught that the most important part of a paper is the introduction, and it can be troubling to create a new idea and capture an audience’s attention. Similar to the test subject “Ruth” I have noticed that I have a tendency to write and erase many sentences that I deem not right for the paper and have trouble moving past the introduction phase of a paper. Rose states that writer’s block usually occurs when the person behind a paper focuses too much on the planning rather than the actual content and creativity of the thoughts included in the paper. I believe that writing should be a fluid process, but I also think that planning a paper or having a guide as to what you want to talk about is crucial as well. I also deem that, feeling confident about adding new ideas is also important, but that’s difficult to achieve when we have been given a set of rules and guidelines to follow. If I was given the opportunity to meet Mike Rose, I would ask “How would you suggest to overcome writer’s block, and what would be your suggestion for a set of guidelines that would help maintain a structure, but also enables creativity to be added?”
From reading Sondra Perl's article, The Composing Processes of Unskilled College Writers, I have come up with questions that I would ask her.
ReplyDelete1. Why do you think that even after making revisions to spelling errors Tony still has many words misspelled by the third draft?
2. What does the consistency in writing strategies among the students studied show?
3. Why do you think the students studied write in a more egocentric point of view?
4. What can be done to get teachers to not label students as "remedial" and not look for the "wrong" in their students' work?
5. Why did Tony continuously edit his paper after a short amount of time?
6. Why was Tony able to vocally voice complete sentences but could not transcribe them onto paper?
7. How did you come up with the "code"?
8. Why do you think a lot of research is not done on the "unskilled"?
I am able to relate with Perl's article with the consistency in writing. I usually write in the same structured style throughout all of my writings. I usually edit as a write, just like Tony as well. I feel like that could stop my flow and not connect my thoughts in my writing, but I also am able to catch mistakes along the way. I also can relate to these writers because I do not spend a lot of time "prewriting". The three points made by Perl also apply to me. I read the topic until I can come up with something to write about and trying to relate it to something in my life. I believe that Perl's findings are still applicable today because there are many unskilled writers out there that probably are having the same difficulties as Tony and the other students studied. I think the two authors topics can be interdisciplinary because when a person faces writers block they can be seen as unskilled or incompetent. They could face a topic that they cannot relate to just as the writers in Perl's article.
Calyn Beese
ENC 1101-0M03
ENC 1101-0M03
ReplyDeleteSondra Perl’s idea of studying unskilled writers rather than consistently studying essays from high level writers is quite brilliant. It would be far more helpful to see the process an unskillful writer goes through, working from the ground up, and then using that as a template to structure how a more skillful process can be taught. I was able to contact Ms. Perl so that we could discuss her study and she was more than thrilled to do so, even after 30 years! We met up at a café for some coffee and desserts where upon sitting down the discussion began right away. I brought up how Tony had been a perfect example for her study, being a high school drop out we can assume his level of education was probably lower. This gave way to many of the errors he left in his writings such as unfinished sentences and poor grammar. Fortunately, these mistakes were exactly what Perl needed so she could point them out and keep them in mind when writing correctly. Behavior, prewriting and editing are three very important steps to take when writing an essay as Ms. Perl has proved with her research and can aid not only college writers but high school as well. If this were taught in high school at a younger age then it would be easier instilled into students. By the time those students reached college, who knows how much their writing would improve. Another thing I had wished to bring up with Ms. Perl was her focus on editing. I notice that I too edit either my own work or my peers’ work specifically for spelling and grammar, not focusing too much on content. Ms. Perl explains that although both spelling and grammar are vitally important they mean nothing with out content. As such, this further shows that composing is insufficiently taught in school. At this conclusion Ms. Perl and I hatch a plan to write an article together about teaching composition writing properly to younger students, who would benefit the most from such teachings. As we finish up, I think to myself how my writing might be different if I had simply learned a better process at a younger age. Ms. Perl stands up, laptop in hand, and proceeds to thank me for caring about the future of writing. “Now wait hold on there,” I exclaim, “I need to thank you, your article is what actually helped me though!” She smiles and says as she walks off “Yes, but you are the youth and you are the ones that shape the future.”
Daniel Keegan
ReplyDeleteENC1101-0M04
Out of the two authors I believe I can relate more with Rose's article about writers block. Every since I was a kid I always had a problem with writers block and focusing on grammatical aspects of the paper instead of the content itself. In specific I related to Rose's point about actually starting the paper. The hardest part about starting a paper for me is the introduction. I always just stare at the blank screen in front of me thinking how can I start this paper. I always found it hard for me to really capture the audience's attention, and make the paper entertaining. This gets me stressed, and one of Rose's rules is to try and be as least stressed as possible. If I could talk to Rose I would probably ask about how her process goes, and ask if she could give me any pointers on how to calm yourself before you write. I would also ask her to go more in depth about her belief on how content is more important than focusing grammatical errors.
Tania Wysong
ReplyDeleteENC 1101-oMo3
I felt identified with both of the readings. It helped a lot knowing that many people might feel the way I do when writing or encounter some of the same problems and obstacles as I do. It was very interesting to learn about the unskilled college writers study and its results, but I felt more engaged to the reading about the Writer’s Block, rigid rules, inflexible plans, and the stifling of language by Mike Rose. I think the writer’s block is something that each one of us can relate to, even highly experienced and skilled writers may face writing problems and blocking from time to time.
I notice that my own experiences are closely related to Ruth and Laurel. First, because I’ve always tried to follow the rule of grabbing the reader’s attention in the first paragraph, since a middle school teacher said we had to do it that way. I could spend hours trying to figure out a good introductory paragraph, which is not good. Second, I tend to fall into procrastination sometimes, which may lead to rushed or late papers. When face with situations like this I might struggle and end up trying to round up the paper or essay incorrectly.
If I had the opportunity to have a conversation with Mike Rose, I would ask him about the best way to learn to select and “know which rules are appropriate for which problems”. I think it can be hard to know when to follow a rule and when not to follow it, especially with college-level assignments.
I found Sondra Perl's article very interesting. At first I had no idea where it was going, but as it progressed the message became clearer. If I were given the chance to have a conversation with her, I would first ask her what motivated or inspired her to do this study. It's funny how our minds become so focused on following the certain type of structure that we have been taught all throughout our schooling, that we neglect to see the little things that matter. Like Tony, I usually look for error while I'm writing and until I finally go back and reread what I wrote, I don't see how odd my sentences sound. I don't end up with as many mistakes as Tony does though, but it definitely takes a lot of my focus when I try to remember all the rules I learned in school about what makes a good writer. I agree completely how Perl says teachers need to be able to identify the specific things their students are struggling with rather than labeling them as a bad writer. When people think they're doing something wrong, without being shown the right way or even helped at all, it can lead to them either giving up and thinking they'll never get better or keep them in that confused daze that they're in. I'd ask her how she began writing and if she had teachers that pointed out to her how to get over "examining the rules of the standard code" or if she even struggled with it. I think it'd be helpful to hear her weak points in writing and how she got over them.
ReplyDeleteAlexandra LaRoche
ReplyDeleteENC 1101-0M03
Mike Rose’s paper on writers block really interested me. All through middle school and most of high school pretty much up until the end of my junior year I struggled to write papers for school. I always just said I had writers block and would sit there and stare at a computer screen for hours. It became very discouraging and that discouragement became a problem with my writing as well. At the end of my junior year my teacher had a baby so we had a fill in teacher for the last quarter of the year. The teacher was Mrs. Leeds. Just like Rose suggests in his paper Mrs. Leeds felt that the “rules” that we had been taught were the reason many of us were struggling to write. For our first paper with her as our teacher she instructed us to forget all rules we had been taught about writing. She told us to forget about structure and format and just write. From that moment I have had no trouble writing, I no longer worry about meeting a certain format criteria I just write the ideas as they come to my head and then make sure they make since later.
Mike Rose's article on Writer's Block was definitely the one I had most connection to because I can relate very easily to it. His first example was of a girl named Ruth who is always having problems with finding the next thing to say and how make sentences flow, which has always been one of my problems. My problems in writing have always been prevalent and no matter how hard I try it never comes out how I wanted it to be my creativity would never show. Rose says that it could possibly stem from ones emotions or something in the mind that is creating a block of ideas. It is easy to see that these arguments easily stand up 30 years later because writer's block is seen in many people because it takes mental use of creativity to use your abilities effectively, which is my main problem because I always think of the ideas but I am never able to execute my thoughts on paper. Going by preset rules that are cognitively unable to break is very frustrating because, as it is seen in Rose's examples, a change in the idea's of a paper is not something easy to deal with because once we have our idea's set they are hard to change. The point that I picked up on most is to not allow myself to be strangled by a certain set of rules but that I should branch out and try new writing styles to allow my writing to grow.
ReplyDeleteENC 1101 oMo3
ReplyDeleteChris Arizmendi ENC1101-omo3
ReplyDeleteI really related to and appreciated Rose’s article. Reading through, I noticed many, if not all, of these findings from his students, I could relate to. From as early as elementary school up until middle school and high school, my literature/english class it was required to almost have no grammatical errors. Unfortunately, I believe schools are way to focused in teaching kids to never make grammar errors over the actual writing material. In the reading, Rose stated that Ruth would worry a lot about grammatical errors in her study. This may be so because in school, even the smallest errors grammatically could mark you a grade down. Many kids lost an interest in writing or mainly just lost the topic and main point of writing due to worrying about grammar errors. Another thing I could relate to in Rose’s piece is how in his study, 5 o the students had “writer’s block.” My biggest writing block issue is the beginning of a story or writing piece. Again, we were always taught in school to have that attention grabber or that “reel-in.” The introduction is definitely an essence to the paper, but I acquire anxiety and get very nervous and can’t move on until I break through this “writer’s block” introduction part just like Sylvia has trouble stated in his study. Just like I related to Sylvia, I can relate to Laurel too. Laurel has issues in not being able to write much on a topic with such little information given. Unfortunately, when I have this problem, I begin to ramble on and bore the reader and maybe even going off topic as I just repeat myself. If I was given the opportunity to speak to Rose, I may have a few questions to ask. For example, “If the students from your study weren’t taught in school to mainly focus on grammar errors, would there be less anxiety in worrying about grammar and more focus on the actual topic?” Also, “If students were noted to ‘keep the audience in mind’ would this affect how they right in a sense of a different viewpoint or approach of the topic?” I feel like in Rose’s writing, his main point is to say that writing shouldn’t be a boring same old robotic like process that just has no emotion or meaning, but to have a smooth outlining main point that covers the topic more than being more focused on the nervousness of grammar errors. As for Pearl, I would ask her how she came about this way of developing a behavior code. Also, I would like a brief description from Pearl of the writing process of skilled and unskilled writers.
Mike Boyd
ReplyDeleteENC1101-0M06
If I had the ability to have a conversation with either of the authors, I would choose Rose. Firstly, I would tell him I completely agree with the idea that there is a constraint that when “sentences aren’t grammatically ‘correct’, they aren’t useful”. This constraint was somewhat engrained in my brain starting in middle school. Growing up with my Mom being my teacher until seventh grade, she was more open to the content and what I was writing about compared to the teachers in middle school and beyond. When I did write for teachers in middle and high school, I definitely was not as fluid in my writing. I would ask Rose how he was taught when he was growing up, or if these ideas developed in college and from analyzing the papers he did. I think his response would consist of a combination of the two, and this combination helped him cultivate his current observations on writing. The reason why I believe this is because of the ideas Rose has on the “algorithms” we use as we write. Although, Rose does not address the idea of grammar and it’s correctness as an algorithms, I believe it is. As we go through the process of writing, we constantly have thoughts which direct our argument or what is being said. If we think “I hope this is correct grammar. Actually, I don’t know so I’m just going to erase it”, then just as I did, we would be more worried about the grade rather than the content and what we produce. Being creative with our writing didn’t have as much freedom within it as what one would have thought at the time.
Khondaker Rahman
ReplyDeleteENC 1101-0M06
In the case of Mike Rose’s examinations of Blockers and Nonblockers, I would most likely ask him if he has experienced either of these situations. Main thing that I would relate to is the nonblockers group because I start write a piece immediately after reading and briefly thinking about what it is I have been asked to write about. In Roses’ words I go about my writing style in “fluid, easily modified, even easily discarded rules and plans” (pg 245). I would ask him about his experience because it would help me understand which part of this research he can relate to the most and if he does than if he could help me understand how I could make my writing more fluid and original. If I can I usually do not ask others opinions about my writing and just write normally but I keep the audience in mind. If I get stuck I think about the things I can write about relative to the subject and just write on, keeping in mind that when editing, I can change it for more clarity. But there are some instances that I do get blocks mostly in the form of Mike’s situation where I keep checking the writing to make sure it meets the professors’ intentions. I get stuck thinking if what I am writing is correct or it’s not appropriate and end up wasting my time not getting anything done. However in this situation I try to think of subjects that relate to the topic at hand and provide relative examples that may support the point in my writing. I would explain to Rose that I would write with what knowledge I have and then I would research and write more precisely in later drafts. That is my problem solving method in the writing.
Chibundo Egwuatu
ReplyDeleteENC 1101-OM06
Is Nutella vegan? I'm pretty sure it is. I'm seeking refuge from the storm outside in my neighborhood Publix, listening to Bat You'll Fly off a pair of earphones I found on the floor of the lecture hall two weeks ago, when I see a face.I know I've seen this guy before but just when and where escapes me. We establish eye contact, and I quickly look away. Ah, that was awkward; okay, be cool, act natural. As I start trying to mouth the lyrics to the song, I finally learn that I have no idea what they are saying. My eyes again drift from the rows of Nutela to this man in the aisle. He's kind of old, do I know him from church? Is he a professor? Maybe a janitor? No, what kind of janitors can afford to shop at Publix. Maybe that's kind of presumptuous of me, I really have no clue how much a janitor makes in a year. Hmm, maybe I could get in on that, Ghandi knows I need the mone-aw poops, I've been staring right at him for like a solid 60 seconds, I am such a creeper. Gosh, this poor man, just trying to buy some Wheaties in a non-quasi subaquatic environment and he has some weirdo chick just gaping at him. I should do something. I'm drawing a blank here. Oh my gosh, it's Mike Rose. Why is he smiling? Did I say that out loud? He looks just like the picture, so weird. His lips are moving but I cannot hear what he is saying. That reminds me, must download some Pink Floyd. Hmm, maybe I should take out my earphones.I gush about the only piece of his I have ever read for my Comp I class. I tell him how I could totally relate on the writers block front, as I think anyone who has ever tried to write something has on some level.Even though the passage was from quite a few years ago, I don't believe the process of writing has changed. When presented with a subject, one must make a myriad of tiny choices to form the finished text; it is hard to know where to start. Though I wondered what process he would suggest to combat complete and total disinterest, a factor that college students are bound to have experienced.He seemed kind of taken aback by my verbal assault, so I decided to ask him how he likes Florida. He says he likes it just fine, mind the weather; and that Publix is quite nice. They don;t have them up in Pennsylvania, and the subs are to die for. He has a pretty cool accent, and nice brogues so I am glad I didn't weird him out too much with the questions. But before I go, I say to him, Nutella is vegan, right? Why wouldn't it be? There are some questions that not even I, Mike Rose, can answer, he says back.
Although both made terrific points over how people attack a paper, I felt I could relate more to Rose instead. A person like myself used to worry about rules, procedures, standards to my papers which of course would lead to writer's block that causes my last-minute writing sessions - ultimately, that led to my downfall like the block group. That very downfall brings the question that I would love to receive an answer from Rose: why do people teach writing as if it's arithmetic, as if there will always be a right and a wrong answer? That's the problem that was addressed in his research and one that I can relate to completely, especially during my days of middle school and high school where suddenly every thing that has a word must have a set amount of content and a standardized structure. If there is one thing I also noticed is how the block grouped and Tony constantly spent time revising as they went on, making their efforts to write futile. It appears to be a common theme with every person who attempts to strive for only "right/wrong answer" rather than generating content. I have experienced that myself with all papers and the ultimate solution is people must stop treating writing as something that can only be done with x,y,z format and that's it. The ultimate solution here is to stop treating rules like law and the standardization of writing. Everyone is to be assumed that they are all intro, three points, conclusion writers, no variety, a rigid standard that a person is forced to follow to be right, only to be denied that A from the butchering it did to a person's creative fire. The solution needs to be executed by the students who create the problems themselves by relying to much on standard procedure rather than allowing their creative juices to flow freely and without constraints.
ReplyDeleteFor me i was more interested in Rose's article on writers block. I feel like writers block hits every college student at some point in their college career. the ways that Rose explains the accurance of writers block made me realize that I have that happen every time i am trying to write a paper, and it is hard to get out of it. Writers block occurs at any point in a paper, normally in the beginning when trying to write that perfect introduction to cathc the readers attention. I have this happen all the time because i am so caught up in trying to make this the best part of my paper that i have no plan for the rest of my paper, which makes it hard to figure it out. I find myself sitting at the computer thinking of anything that comes to my mind when trying to get some type of information down, but instead my mind is blank. I am always second guessing whether or not to add some things into my paper to make it sound better or not, but once i realize all im doing is wasting time i erase everything and try to start all over again. the only way to get rid of this problem is to stop over thinking a paper. Let your thoughts run freely and it'll all flow together without interruptions from yourself trying to correct every sentence that has been writen. you are your own writers block. there is no correct format on how to start a paper everyone is different, so doing what works for you can help eliminate a writers block from occuring in the future.
ReplyDeleteI was personally more interested in Mike Rose's article about writers block. Writers block is a very relatable topic to me and probably all students. The way Mike broke down the process and the way he spoke about the specific aspects of assignments that induce writers block made it extremely clear to me that I could possibly experience writer's block very frequently. The more rules and regulations the more limited the persons cognition becomes. The part where speaks about how writer's tend to get writers block from focusing to much on the thesis and then being left with nothing to expand on happens too many times. I have gone through that for majority of my high school writing career and am just now getting the hang of it. Mike makes a very valid point in my opinion when he says how writers block is basically self-induced. Our mentality that a paper must be written a certain way and written in a certain format ect.. is exactly what causes us to get writer's block. He goes on to say that there is no "right" way to start writing a paper so everyone should have a personalized way of starting papers that works best for them.
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